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TDI Compound swap project.

This was Crsmp5 (burnt toast) original idea, I thought I should promote it to it's own forum as it is has been so popular.

TDI Compound swap project.

Postby shortysclimbin » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:17 am

Well.. Trying to go from this:

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To a compound 2.0L AHU with ported head, 11mm lift 38mm base circle cam, custom oversized valves, cummings 12mm mechanical TDI pump, block girdle, rosten rods, and transporter pistons. The project build is based on "what I had on the shelve" Basically 90% of the materials was project leftovers from customers or other car projects. The turbos are rebuilt or used and the transmission is the 010 3 speed auto reworked with rasbestos clutches & bands, a billet pump drive, and no accumulators. I also upped the pressures and increased the clutch pack volume to hold more torque.

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I'll need to post more on the project as I have reworked the whole engine bay, brakes, suspension, transmission, engine, turbo setup, and engine mounting / frame work in this Kubvan... The motor is going to be overkill instead of the 42hp 1.6NA but I suspect I'll just drive it detuned 90% of the time and for shows turn up the power a bit.


PS anyone need a motor let me know. The 1.6na is still good with only 76k on it.
Last edited by shortysclimbin on Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TDI Compound swap project.

Postby luckham » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:46 am

Wow
Cummings 12mm mechanical TDI pump, nice does that just bolt on or whats required for that to fit.
What are you expecting for Horse Power.
Looks like that turbo is going to come thru the Hood ?
Why did you stick with the Auto Tranny ?
Nice job on the engine compartment insulation, that will help a lot.
I should do that on my 4 X 4 kubvan project before the engine goes in for the last time.

Keep us posted
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Re: TDI Compound swap project.

Postby shortysclimbin » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:53 am

The Cummings 12mm pump is almost bolt on. you will need to swap a better govenor spring and the LDA from a TDI motor for a TDI setup. You also need to machine the bracket to fit the pump drive or use a A3 AHU one and get a pulley machined to fit (the taper is bigger and the timing is about 1 tooth off). For a IDI motor you just should swap spring and fix the mounting / timing issues. If I didn't have the parts on the shelve for the cummings pump, the Land rover 300 TDI pump is a direct swap although not always a 12mm head. The cummings should support move power than the land rover pump though after the modifications.

Power wise the engine should easily reach 250whp with the potential to get up to over 300whp with enough fueling. The block alone should put us at around 190whp with the stock turbo, so this is what I plan on starting with for tuning and break in purposes. Basically I will be bypassing the LP turbine with the wastegate fully open. Once I get the bugs fixed I will work on turning things up slowly and then increasing fuel.

If you look at the first picture you will notice the stock airbox is actually higher than my custom aftermarket intake. From that point I have about 14" more space until I hit the top of the hood at the rear of the engine bay. The turbo only will take up about 8" of that so plenty of room for cooling. These bays have a lot of height and not a lot of width to play with so I am trying my best to use that to my advantage. The fun part is going to be the downpipe snaking around the brake lines, pinion, starter, and output shafts. :ugeek:

The insulation you see here is only the covering. I ended up dynomating the engine bay and then applying additional aluminum heat shielding to cut down on noise and heat transfer from the turbos. On the inside I used 10mm thick floor sound deadening material which I installed behind the HVAC air box and other components to even further dampen the noise. I insulated the hood around two months after ownership and found it significantly reduced the noise in the cabin. The floor and part of the firewall on the inside of the van is also truck bedlined. I highly would suggest this along with having them coat the crap out of the outside wheel wells. ( I have yet to coat the wheel wheels, but suspect this is where most of my noise is coming from).

The auto transmission although old and heavy has some very key benefits most don't know about:

1) drag guys from V8 sandrails use these to hold over 800whp motor builds when combined with a custom casing.
2) The gearing is straight gearing out of the box. This holds way more torque than the oem 60 degree gearing that the newer TDI VWs come with.
3) Parts are very cheap to rebuild these things. I spent $500 in parts and now have more than enough performance clutch packs than I know what to do with.

I also really wanted not to screw up the interior and was having a hard time figuring out a cable routing system that would allow me to put the shifter box in the oem auto spot so that it looks and feels oem. I Also enjoy having this as my only automatic car, and am long term considering swapping it for a DSG setup if I can figure out how to get it to be AWD on a junkyard budget.
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Re: TDI Compound swap project.

Postby CRSMP5 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:43 pm

The starter fit? Aaz people swear they do not clear the block.... Also 2.0??
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Re: TDI Compound swap project.

Postby shortysclimbin » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:13 pm

yes the starter can fit. It just needs a little grinding to get it to clear the added motor casting. I chose to grind about 2mm off and took a picture of it. I'll post it up in a bit. The AAZ people didn't want to play around apparently :p!

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As you can see only a little grinding on the new starter:

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But to note the old one was quite a bit bigger... Gas vs. Diesel or just a different casting?

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And it is a 2.0L I custom made a gasket big enough to clear the pistons under compression. I did this by clamping the gasket between the ARP studs and slowly opening it up with a nice grinder. It isn't the most accurate way to do it, but it was what I had. I then cycled the pistons up and down and validated it was greater than 1 mm clearance in the worst case situation.

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Re: TDI Compound swap project.

Postby shortysclimbin » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:45 pm

The head is reworked with my own design swirl polished inconel valves, tdimeister 260/260 11mm lift cam, dual valve springs, and a heavy port job to match. The pistons are 81mm 17:1 CR pistons with deep and big pockets for the valves.

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For the bottom end I made a custom 1/2" thick block girdle, rosten rods, arp bolts and assembly hardware, lightened and balance the intermediate shaft, installed a new liquid vibration balancer, balanced the rotational assembly, and powder coated the engine block.

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The intake is a custom intake manifold:

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For the turbos the HP is a modified K03 turbo that has a new center section. the wastegate was ported out along with the turbine and compressor housings for max flow. The HP is sitting on a custom adapter that bolts to a 1.6TD manifold that was ceramic coated. The HP Turbine is a ballbearing GT28RS style turbo with a slightly larger compressor and smallest AR possible for the turbine. The turbo setup only cost $500 bucks and is a budget build for sure with used parts that have been rebuilt. I suspect I might want to move to a gas K03 turbo to have slightly better overlap between the compressor maps, but am going to try the combination to see if it works. The secondary wastegate is still yet to be welded in as I still am scratching my head on the downpipe placement. I will sort this out once it is in the engine bay and I can snake everything in and around. a 3" pipe should fit in a 1.5" pipes place right :)?
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Re: TDI Compound swap project.

Postby CRSMP5 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:16 pm

I have to give guy a link... He was trying to build for his mommy who needs auto...

For my 2.0 idi... I taking a aba metal gasket, cuttin rivits off, using aaz top layer with aba bottom n shim... ... The shimmed for turbo vr6 gaskets use new inner shim... Figured out that shim thickness is the one vs up to 5 hole differance...

Not spillin beans on my proto... Bout to make my old coupe, had since 96, into 1.6na so if i get the few $ in pieces, may test it out this summer yet...
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Re: TDI Compound swap project.

Postby luckham » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:03 am

Nice work Shorty, amazing really.
Looking forward to more updates
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Re: TDI Compound swap project.

Postby shortysclimbin » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:27 am

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Well worked on it a bit this weekend and was able to get at least the timing belt side mount bolted up and almost all the mounts on. I stopped because of a few difficult areas which I need to address first.

1) The alternator was way to close for comfort to the 1/2" bolts which hold the bumper support. So I made custom bolts:

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We will see if the altenator now will fit. I am crossing my fingers I can get the better belt system in there.

2) while installing the rear transmission mount (the greatest PITA known to man) I noticed I was not going to be able to remove the control arm bolts so I could change the bushings and 32 year old rubber mounts... So I am rebuilding the drivers side control arm and suspension bits now. This resulted in 32 year old bolts not liking me and a lot of hope that I don't have another venture with cutting these out to remove the control arms. The engine mounting will commence after I get t his resolved.

You can also see the engine fits all but the intake air filter! I need a 90 degree cobra head fitting. Anyone know a good place to get one? The turbo is right now up against the firewall but this is because I have it jacked up hanging on jacks and my engine support bar so I can play around with suspension.
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Re: TDI Compound swap project.

Postby luckham » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:08 pm

I have installed a number of engines over the years in my vans trying to use different front mounts with less than satisfactory results.
I have found that the original Rabbit injector/mounting front plate is the best way.
engine mount.jpg
Rabbit front mount
engine mount.jpg (53.5 KiB) Viewed 8414 times

What I have found is that the the engine torques clockwise in the engine bay if not properly supported at the front.
Just my thoughts, good luck
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